Buzzsprout Conversations
Welcome to Buzzsprout Conversations, the show where we dive into the real-life stories of podcasters in the middle of their podcasting journey.
You'll hear stories from famous podcasters as well as everyday podcasters, just like you, share stories about how podcasting has impacted them and the things they've learned.
Buzzsprout Conversations
Francesca Amber: 5 Tips That Lead to Making Six-Figures From Podcasting
Francesca Amber hosts the Law of Attraction Changed My Life podcast, the UK’s number-one podcast for self-improvement. In this interview, you'll hear about Francesca's podcasting journey, the lessons she learned along the way, and her monetization tips as a top earner using Buzzsprout Ads.
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Hi everybody, welcome back to the channel.
Speaker 1:Today I'm interviewing Francesca Amber. Francesca is the host of the wildly successful podcast Law of Attraction Changed my Life. It's a show about manifestation and where she talks to people about improving their life situation. Two years ago, francesca started the podcast during COVID and has quickly grown it to over 5 million downloads. She regularly charts at number one for self-help in the UK and has monetized her show to well over a six-figure income and has been able to make it her full-time gig.
Speaker 1:We talk about a lot in this podcast. We talk about how she started on YouTube when she pivoted to podcasting, unique values of podcasting, the benefits of finding the right niche for your podcast. We talk about growth strategies the exact ones she used to grow her podcast and specifically how she built a community around her podcast. And then we talk about monetization strategies that Francesca used to make over six figures in income every year from her podcast. It's a really interesting interview. I learned a ton. Hope you enjoy it as well.
Speaker 1:Two things to note about this interview Francesca is based in the UK and I'm in Florida, so we had to be a bit creative with scheduling. So, if you notice, the lighting is changing on my side throughout the interview. That's because the sun had not come up until we press record. And then, second, like many podcasters, francesca does cuss in her episodes, and so we have not edited all of that out. If you're listening with small children, or if just cursing, offending, or you just don't like it, this may not be the episode for you, but we really think you'll enjoy it.
Speaker 1:And now I bring you Francesca Amber. Hey everybody, welcome back. Today I am talking to Francesca Amber. Francesca hosts the highly successful podcast Law of Attraction Changed my Life. It's a podcast about manifesting the good life and, as the podcast description says, it's not a cult. Besides her podcast, she's also written a book, created a successful YouTube channel, runs online courses, an online book club and tons of other things. So today we're going to talk about her creator journey and everything she's learned along the way, so you can learn a lot too, francesca. Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I love being here. I'm a big fan of Buzzsprout. If it wasn't for you guys, I wouldn't be here, so I'm excited.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome. What? So I was kind of piecing together what I call like your media empire. You've been creating online for a long time. Where did you get your start, or what was the first thing you started creating online?
Speaker 2:So the first thing was YouTube. Over 10 years ago now, and I think this is because I was consuming a lot of YouTube at the time and I really just wanted to talk about the Law of Attraction, which back then not many people were talking about. Only a handful of people you'd speak to would be like, oh, I've read the magic, not the magic, the secret. But that was kind of it. It wasn't as mainstream as it is now, and so I just started to create weekly videos, except for when I forgot, of course, because I wasn't consistent back then on how to manifest and how to use the Law of Attraction in your life in a very sort of crude, novice kind of way. But people loved it and it grew steadily and I did that for 10 years.
Speaker 1:Wow, for anyone who doesn't know what is the Law of Attraction.
Speaker 2:So it's basically about how your thoughts can create your reality and how so many people just go through life accepting what happens to them. But when you discover the Law of Attraction you realize that things aren't happening to you. You are actually co-creating everything that happens to you, the good and the bad. And once you realize that and you also start to develop the tools to kind of harness your own energy and harness your own mind, you can start to use that for good and create basically the life of your goddamn dreams.
Speaker 1:I read an article about you in prepping for this interview. You help me understand this. You found your husband years before you ever met him and told people and yourself that he was going to be your husband. What is this story?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I went and did online dating, as we all do, and I put in six foot six and above, because you know what I was in my 20s. My standards were high.
Speaker 1:They've slipped since then.
Speaker 2:I accept much less now. But I put in six foot six and above and one person came back on my search results and it was this really tall guy next to a yacht. That helped and I was like this is my husband. As soon as I saw his picture I was like this is my husband. And so I messaged him, but he never replied because it turned out that he was living in Australia at the time. Whatever, he never replied. So I put his picture on a vision board because I was very into the law of attraction at the time.
Speaker 2:I was, you know, making vision boards for my future husband and I kept it for three years. And three years later my friend is walking along the street and she just sees this guy. She doesn't realize it's the guy from my vision board and says oh, my friend loves tall men. She's got like a weird fetish for tall men. Do you want to go on a blind date? Now? She's never done this for me before and no friend has ever set me up with a blind date, since it's the only time it's ever happened. And when we meet up it's the same goddamn person. And we got engaged six months later. He did turn out to be gay, but that's, we were still married for six years. Still counts, counts for something.
Speaker 1:What would that mean to you? That you I mean you show up on a blind date and it's a person that you've like. You know what they look like, you've seen them before.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I realized the morning of the date? Because he asked if we could switch like Facebook profiles, if we could see each other on Facebook, and his profile picture was the same picture that I'd had hanging up in my wardrobe for three years and that's how I knew it was exactly the same as because it was the same picture. And even to this day he changes his profile picture once every 10 years, like it's just two years. But it was insane and I remember telling people like this works and the amount of times I've said with my law of attraction journey, this shit works, it works. And I just told everyone I'm meeting my husband tonight and, sure enough, yeah, six months later we got married.
Speaker 2:And some people have said to me since do you think that that was a failure or you forced somebody to marry you? Absolutely not. Everybody is for a reason or a season. That man changed my life. Although we had a very unhappy relationship, in some ways he was the person that was almost like what my parents should have done, like us, in a very unhappy nine to five living like in the corporate world. I was just living day to day and he was like you can quit your job, you can travel the world, you can create your own business, and I did all of that under his guidance, and for that I'll be forever thankful, forever thankful.
Speaker 1:Such an interesting story. I think it was like a news article that I read. I was going through it. I'm like whoa this interview to be a lot more interesting.
Speaker 2:It's crazy, he calls me a witch.
Speaker 1:A witch.
Speaker 2:He does call me a witch. He's like well, we all know you're a witch. I'm like yeah, we all are, we're all witches, You've just got to access it.
Speaker 1:So, going back to the YouTube channel, you started just because you were consuming YouTube. What helped you make that switch from being somebody who's just consuming YouTube to somebody who is actually a creator?
Speaker 2:Well, I am a very creative person. By this point, I had already written a book. But back then, you know, I wrote a book in 2008, where there were real gatekeepers to that creative world. You know, you couldn't just get a book published, you couldn't just create things. And then, when I discovered YouTube, I was like, oh, you don't need to wait for an agent to find you or someone to hire you to be a TV presenter. You can literally create your own channel. And that's what I loved about it was the fact that those gatekeepers are really disappearing and you could create something for yourself. So I loved it.
Speaker 1:It really is the difference between I don't know like mid 90s to now. You know, at first started with text online and then maybe podcasting and then video and then self publishing books through maybe Amazon and online courses. The world has gone, changed very much. From there is a sliver of people who get to decide what content gets created and gets distributed, because distributed, you know, distribution was the choke point and now anybody can go and start a TikTok channel and, if it's good, really start to take off.
Speaker 2:It's incredible. It's given us all the greatest freedoms, and that's what I love about Buzzsprout. As well as that, it's such an incredibly easy platform to use and you know, I found myself in lockdown, pregnant with twins, with nothing else to do, and I was able to create the number one podcast in the UK for self development. That earns me more money than I've ever earned just from using this one little free app, like you guys taught me how to use it for free. There's people that charge hundreds of thousands of pounds for courses on teaching you how to start a podcast. You don't need that shit. You just need to watch the bus sprout videos.
Speaker 2:It takes about 10 hours. You need to dedicate a day to it and then boom, you're done, and I love that. We can all create whatever life we want from our home. We don't even need to leave our house.
Speaker 1:That is an amazing testimonial. You know, put that into a commercial someday. So take me from this YouTube channel. You start building a YouTube channel. That's really taking off. How does that translate into COVID lockdowns? And then you decided to do a podcast. Why did you not stick with the YouTube?
Speaker 2:Well, there were several reasons. One was that I had a daughter and as a mum, I didn't have the same amount of time as I used to have. So, setting up a camera, setting up the lighting you're a man, so you won't understand this, but like doing your goddamn hair and makeup, it's just an effort and I just found that, trying to find the creative resources in my brain to think of what you wanted to do for the episode, to put it together, to articulate it was one side, but then actually looking like a human as well, like I'm not just sitting there in my pajamas.
Speaker 2:It was like a whole different aspect and it was just it was too much. But the other side of it as well was I was no longer consuming YouTube. So I'm very like with young children. I don't really like to be looking at my phone. I try to not look at my phone as much as I can.
Speaker 2:And something I love, love, love about podcasts is that you can listen to a podcast whilst you're cleaning. You can listen to a podcast whilst you're feeding your children dinner. You can do it whilst you're driving. You can do it whilst you're in the bath. It doesn't take away your focus or your time and that's what I absolutely love about it.
Speaker 2:And I just decided like there was a point where it was like, yeah, it's about the hair and makeup, but also it's like I don't want my listeners or my viewers to be ignoring their children in the corner and sitting looking staring into a phone. I didn't want that. I want my listeners to be listening to what I'm saying. You know we do a lot of stuff about energetic cleaning and cleaning your front door and cleaning your window and things that actually raise your vibe and make you feel good. I want people to be doing that, or getting out for a walk in nature whilst consuming my content, and so for me and I'm a massive fan of podcasts so for me, that was the only way forward and I just stopped YouTube completely and changed to podcasting.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, I really feel what you're saying, because potty has. He's one of the few mediums that accepts that you have a life outside of the media you're consuming. Netflix wants full attention Books. You need to be focused and staring right into the book when you're watching any sort of social media. The entire goal is to keep your attention as long as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And podcasting is saying I know you do other stuff, that's cool, we're just going to be talking in the background. And I grew up you know the United States a little bit different. We drive everywhere and so we used to do long, long road trips. You know eight, nine hours, all the whole family in the car, and we listened to audiobooks. And what was wonderful about it was that it was a family shared experience. We weren't all individually staring into a device more iPhones back then but you're not staring into a device, you're not separate. We all were listening to the same book and podcasting still allows us to do that. Even if maybe some of your younger children don't catch all of the topics that are being discussed, they're being introduced into an adult conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and actually the amount of listeners that say to me I listened to this with my mom or I listened to this with my daughter and it's something that they can bond over, that's amazing. And, like I said again, it's just not you sitting looking into your phone, which I love.
Speaker 1:So you're pregnant with twins, you have the lockdown and you decide that podcasting is for you. What does the beginning of your podcasting journey look like?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I had basically nothing to do. I was very, very bored and my sister was the one that just kept saying I don't think you should give up on Law of Attraction, change my life. So many people loved it. You loved doing it, but just do it as a podcast instead. And so I'm a massive technophobe huge. And so that put me off and I joined a free webinar type thing with this online person that was like I'll show you how to start a podcast. This girl did not show you how to start a podcast. It was all one big advert to sign up for 600 pounds and basically she'll teach you how to start a podcast. And so I just started Googling during this webinar and I was like what is the best host in the UK? Like what should I use? Because I had no idea. And Buzzsprout just kept coming up time and time again. And so I looked on there and what got me was these easy, like idiot style, absolute idiot style videos that showed you exactly what microphone you need to buy, which is a $60 microphone from Amazon, which I'm still using to this day I may be on my third one, but still like it tells you exactly how to edit, how to upload it, which format to upload it in. It was mind blowing for me. So I spent an entire day, I spent 10 hours watching those videos, writing notes, and boom, I was away.
Speaker 2:I was doing it and to begin with it was just a real passion project. It was something to take me out of this, quite frankly, horrible situation. You know, I'd lost my business. I was living in a new city where I didn't know anyone, so I moved in, got pregnant and then, boom, you're locked down. You're not allowed to see anyone. So I had no friends here, I had nothing, and so it was really like an escape for me to focus my attention on while we were in this horrible pandemic. And it was just a bit of a passion project. And then it just grew and grew and grew.
Speaker 1:One of the things that's I love so much about creating content especially even the content that we create for Buzzsprout as our marketing channel, like our YouTube channel and just any blogs or anything is that you can just pour a ton of work into something and then give it away, and if it's good enough enough, people will find it that now it makes sense for you to have spent, you know, four months working on an online course, or months and months recording a few videos, or years working on a podcast. Those numbers start to make sense once you get to a certain level of quality. When we had to record things for just a handful of people or go give a seminar to maybe a hundred people, the numbers just don't add up. But YouTube and podcasting and just online creating really changed the numbers quite a bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, because it's accessible to pretty much everyone, except for my own mother, who still can't work out access podcasts. She's still never listened to a goddamn episode. But there we go.
Speaker 2:But yeah it's accessible to everybody, it's free.
Speaker 2:And I think I remember when you guys, like, created those videos, you were saying make sure you do a podcast about something that you are truly passionate about and you can speak about for a long time. And I think that that is a common mistake people might make is to if you are in the phase of having a baby, you ain't going to want to talk about having a baby forever. If you are I know some people do them about grief and stuff you don't want to talk about grief forever. But I knew that talking about the law of attraction something that I'd already spent 10 years creating content about was something I could talk about all day long. I could talk about it till the day I die.
Speaker 2:And so it just kept going and, like you say, those numbers just went up and up and up and my library was building. So not only were people listening to the new episode I was bringing out each week, but people were always going back and discovering the podcast and starting from a fresh. And I've still got people now that say I discovered your podcast last week and I've listened to all 113 episodes and I'm like, good God, do you not work?
Speaker 2:But yeah, so it's amazing that it's this whole resource there, now that, yes, I do create online courses. Yes, I have a Patreon book club. That's, you know, a paid subscription. I have all of these things. But if you have nothing right now and you just want to consume free content, it's all there. It's all there. There's so much value there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so for I haven't introduced this yet, but you have already hit 5 million downloads in two years.
Speaker 2:Yes, what you're saying about that, is that good Cause I asked Marshall what I was like am I one of your best podcasters? And he would say Marshall owns Buzzsprout, doesn't he? Does he own it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's one of the co-founders.
Speaker 2:Yes, One of the co-founders and I was like am I your top podcaster? And he was like I hate to tell you, but no, but he's like but you are one of our fastest growing, so I'll take that. I will take that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 5 million downloads in two years is exceptionally good, especially at some of the fastest. Growing are like the celebrities who are already a celebrity, and then they're like, oh, I'm talking to my celebrity friends on a podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, when Will Smith starts a podcast, people know who he is already. For people who don't have this massive celebrity presence, to go and start a podcast and grow this quickly is really, really uncommon. So what do you attribute to your success?
Speaker 2:Shall I tell you it's the law of attraction. Do you not think I law of attraction this, I manifested this into my life. Do you think I would do it if it wasn't going to be successful? I knew that this was going to change my life and I visualize all the time. You know, I have affirmations that I play every single day while I'm having a shower or doing whatever, and it's I am the number one podcaster in the UK. I am the highest paid podcaster in the UK and I truly believe that one day I will be that because it's what I affirmed myself. All the time.
Speaker 2:I feel very busy in my mind and in reality, although I do have a lot going on, a lot of it is because I see so much stuff in the future that I want to do and I feel like it's coming. So if you believe that it's getting bigger and things are coming to you all the time, it will just happen that way. But also, my content is pretty goddamn good. I'm not going to lie, it's good. So, yeah, I absolutely I love it. I love it, love it. I would do it for free. In fact, I did do it for free for so long.
Speaker 1:How I mean you're creating the content, and we everybody knows creating excellent content is really, really important. That is half of the equation. But actually marketing the content, getting it in front of people Podcasting does not market itself like a YouTube channel. When people are watching it a lot, youtube starts recommending it A social channel. When people retweet you or they like something on Instagram, then Instagram starts sharing it more often. That doesn't happen in podcasting. So how are you doing anything on the marketing side, or is this 100% organic? People are finding you.
Speaker 2:No, I've never, ever paid for any kind of advertising or marketing or anything.
Speaker 2:To begin with, it was just word of mouth and I think that, using my existing Instagram which was not anything crazy you know, my personal Instagram had like 3000 followers on it or something but just posting consistently about it, I think people sometimes think you have to make massive moves to be successful and really it's just about consistency.
Speaker 2:It's like I show up every single day. I show up and I talk about my podcast, probably every day on my Instagram, like in some form or another, I will talk about, you know, my book club, or I'll talk about the podcast I'm recording, or I'll talk about just something like today I'll mention on my stories that I've just done this interview with you. It's about every day showing up because I think people are so scared. There's a great book called Bragg Better by Meredith Feynman and I listened to a podcast with her and she said people mention what they have once and then they feel like everyone's going to be sick of them or they'll be bragging if they talk about it too many times. But the thing is, every time you mention something on your social media, only maybe 1% to 10% of people are going to see it right.
Speaker 1:Out of that half.
Speaker 2:Half the people have probably got a screaming child in the background won't even hear it.
Speaker 1:Half of them will forget it.
Speaker 2:So you have to mention what you have to offer repeatedly, every day. It has to be your obsession. This is not just my passion, but my obsession. I talk about it constantly and it is, I think, because it is such a big part of my life. I do a self-development book club as part of the podcast and that in itself is its own podcast, but I really live that. So last month we did the five second rule. So you really live that five second rule every day. So every day it's really easy to go on your stories and say, right, I really don't want to work out today, but I'm just going to go five, four, three, two, one and I'm going to work out and you can talk about it.
Speaker 2:The month before we did a Feng Shui book and I could do stories and videos about how I'm cleaning my front door and energetically cleans in my house and redoing my love and relationship corner. The content is there. You just need to be open to the opportunities and just talk about it, talk about it, talk about it. Link back to the podcast, link back to the podcast. Everything I do links back to the podcast and that is my number one priority, Even though technically I don't really. For a long time I didn't even earn any money from the podcast.
Speaker 2:It was all from these little side hustles to do with it. What I have to remember is I can never get caught up in the book club or my online workshops or whatever it is that I'm selling, because without the podcast, none of that stuff works. So my number one priority, all of my energy, has to go into creating the best podcast every single Friday and make sure that that episode is going to make people come back. It's going to make people share it, and that's another thing my amazing listeners do is they constantly share it with their friends. They share it on their stories. I repost them. Share, share, share, share. That's all it is every goddamn day.
Speaker 1:Word of mouth, as often cited as like one of the best ways to grow a podcast. Is there anything you do to get help your listeners share the podcast, because we all want that to happen, but it often feels like it's totally out of our control.
Speaker 2:I think that the only way you can guarantee that is to create such good content that people want to share that they are listening to it. I have a friend that has a bit of a failing business and she was like sending me these stories and begging me to repost them on her things. She's like can you share this with me? And it's like I didn't share it because it's like begging people to share your stuff is never going to work. Just like if you start a business and you beg your family and friends to make an order with you, that's never going to be sustainable. And so I actually don't ever ask my friends or family or anyone to listen to my podcast or share my podcast, because that's not sustainable. What they'll share one time and it's inauthentic, it won't work.
Speaker 2:So people, I want people to feel a moment in that podcast where they're like this has changed my life, this has changed my life. I've had people message me saying there was a moment in that podcast where I realized that I had to leave my husband. There was a moment when I realized I was in a toxic relationship. There's a moment when I realized I have to quit my job. I have to change my life. That is what will make people share, and they'll share it in an authentic way. And not only will they do it once, they will do it repeatedly. They'll become your loyal fans. And so that's all I do. I don't beg for people to do anything. I don't ask.
Speaker 1:That's wonderful. One of the pieces of advice I often give, kind of related to this, is when you're picking your topic. The topic for your show has to be so honed in, like very specific. You know what you're teaching, you know what you're discussing, so that when somebody is listening to you they go oh, this podcast is for my friend Jeremy. I'm going to tell him about it because we've talked about the law of attraction and so I know I've got to share with him. This is a podcast about rebuilding vintage land cruisers and he has an old land cruiser. I've got to tell him about this podcast. These shows that are like hey, I just got to talk to interesting people who do interesting things. Yeah, everybody's interested in that, and thus no one springs to mind as I need to tell it, this one person about this podcast. But when, the more specific the show, the more recommendable it really becomes.
Speaker 2:I agree, but don't you think? I think people are scared of niching too much. They're so scared because they don't want to shut people out, and I feel like you're exactly right. I feel like I often say, oh, it's mostly women that listen to my podcast. It's something like 98% women and then like 2% gay men. But it's like sometimes I still feel like there's a book I really want to do in my book club. Right, that is all about how to manifest using your menstrual cycle. It's all about periods.
Speaker 2:But I know I've got out of the 3,000 members, I think I've got about seven men and I'm terrified of ostracising them. But the reality is this podcast is by a single woman who is a single mother, who has been in very difficult relationships, and the more that I talk about that and sometimes I still get scared I think, oh, is this putting people off that don't have children, that aren't single, that aren't women? You can't be scared of that, because you will find your people. You'll find your people more and more and, like you say people that listen to it, or say my friend Deborah is about to go through a divorce. She's like doing whatever, I'll recommend it to her. And so, yeah, I think, even me. I still get scared to niche down too much and ostracise people. But you have to really. And you know what? The gay men still listen. They still listen, they still love it, even if I'm talking about periods.
Speaker 1:It's so wild to me. There's seven, eight billion people in the world. There are millions and millions of people interested in almost everything, and yet when we're building up our own content, we start having this, you know belief, pop into our brains that well, if it's not applicable to my cousin and it's not applicable to one of my coworkers, then this probably won't be successful. And I think it comes from we all used to consume media that was approved by gatekeepers, that was on TV, that was mainstream, and when things are mainstream they have to be brought appeal. But now, when we're in a world of kind of like internet abundance, anything can be a show. You would never have a show on the BBC about the law of attraction. You wouldn't have a show on you know news in the United States about rebuilding old land cruisers. Those aren't going to exist. But as a podcast those can be wildly successful because the audience can be so much smaller as a percentage, because we're reaching such a larger group in the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love it.
Speaker 1:So a couple of times you've talked about making money from your podcast. So can you talk and walk us through a few of the ways you've set your podcast up to make money and just teach us anything you can about how to start monetizing and turn a passion into something we actually do full time?
Speaker 2:I love this because I am like a serial entrepreneur at heart, even though half time I don't know what I'm doing. So that was the thing. So from the beginning, I noticed the numbers were creeping up and the podcast was. I think it was number three in self development within the first couple of weeks, which I was like what and it's been number one in the charts pretty much most weeks for the last two years. But I wasn't making any money from it because, until recently, buzzsprout didn't even do their advertising, so I was making no money from it. So I realized quickly that I had to figure out other ways. So I think one of the first things that I ever did was I created a notebook that just said shit, I'm manifesting in 2021, and I sold like a thousand of them, my God those trips to the post office were wild.
Speaker 2:I was literally handwriting the addresses. I was working hard, not smart, and I just started to sell a few little products. So I did notebooks. Then I created these manifestation boxes where I basically found all these different little things and bits and pieces, and I got some worksheets printed and I put them together into a box and sent it out as like a little subscription box, and I love doing that. But all of these things were very labor intensive, incredibly labor intensive. But again, I was in lockdown with newborns. I had nothing else to do so I was like why not? And then I started to really hone in on the things that were really working for me. I only have one product that I sell, like one physical product I sell, which is gratitude necklaces, and they are different necklaces that say different affirmations like love, thankful, gratitude, blessed, all these things, and I absolutely love them. I've now got to a point where I don't do them in my kitchen anymore, time lapsing myself wrapping them up for content. They're in a warehouse and they're all taken care of and that's incredible. I'm really proud of those.
Speaker 2:And then I started creating digital products, which is where shit got real. So my first ever course I did was a New Year's Day goal setting party, and so I discovered lots and lots of stuff around how to set goals and actually achieve them. Like so, many people were mocking the whole New Year, new Me type thing and you shouldn't mock people that are saying New Year, new Me, because these are people that genuinely want to change their lives and they have all the best intentions in the world to quit these toxic habits or quit these toxic relationships, but we just don't have the tools to actually see it through. And so I was like I have all this information, I know how to do this. Why don't I share with people what I do? On January, the first? We won't call it a course or a workshop, we'll call it a party, and I sold tickets for £20. I sold £50,000 of tickets and it was a three hour party on New Year's Day.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was the first thing I ever did. Do you know what Every single person that did it was like? It was absolutely incredible. They got so much from it, they loved it. People still message me now saying we're on month six or a month eight. This has happened. This has happened. It's been incredible.
Speaker 2:I'm actually in the process of turning that workshop into a book so that it's a lot more widely accessible for people. I plan on doing that workshop every January 1st, because do you know what? That's what I do on January 1st? I sit at home with a glass of rose or a bottle and I put ambient music on, I intentionally light a candle and I plan my year. So I thought, why not share it with other people and help other people? That's just a thing. So once I did that, I realized, wow, I really can share my expertise and make money from this. I can start to earn a living from this podcast, even if it's not directly, like I say, from directly from the main podcast. And so I started doing that. I've created just a handful of workshops. I've done maybe two or three.
Speaker 2:I did one about setting up a side hustle, like manifesting your perfect side hustle, things like that. Then that's when the amazing thing happened, which is I started my Patreon book club. So there is a book called the Magic, which is a 28-day manifestation process, and I talked about it loads on my podcast. I was like, every time I do this process, something wild will happen. I'll get pregnant, I'll divorce someone, I'll move house, like something life-changing will happen, like something really big. And so many people were like, can we do it with you? And I just I couldn't figure out how I was like I don't know how I would facilitate that, I don't know how you could do it with me. And that's when I discovered the Patreon app where people could basically pay a monthly subscription and they could do the book with me. I would do a podcast every day, keep motivation and morale high and keep people going.
Speaker 2:And so that was the idea was just to basically do this one month and do one book. Well, over a thousand people signed up and that was the first proper money that I had earned since my salon closed in lockdown. Like that was the first money that I had earned in nearly a year, and I now had two newborn babies a six year old, and I was just. I didn't know what to do and I saw it and people got so much from it and not only people. I got so much from it.
Speaker 2:Having that accountability of I have to do this because this is my job. I have to keep up with it. We're now 25 books in. I've been doing it for 25 months. We now have over 3000 members and it's incredible, it's absolutely incredible the transformations that people have had from that book club. It's truly life changing, like I say not just for them but for me as well, and that is really like my bread and butter, that is like my main income, that's what I spend. Probably I'd say 80% of my working time I spend on that. And it would be really tempting, with each book, just to, at the beginning of the month, back to record all of the podcast episodes and just do it. But I don't. I really live the book, I embody it. I do the processes Because otherwise you can't really say this book's gonna change your life and then if your life isn't changing, it won't take that long before people are like she's just recording episodes and just like she's not actually doing it, like what in her life has changed.
Speaker 2:But I think the reason people resonate with me is because they've seen me go from literally being a single mum of three young children. I mean, when I first started this I was pregnant and I genuinely didn't know how I was gonna afford to do anything. I didn't know how I was gonna afford to live a normal life again. I lost my business. I'd lost everything pretty much. I didn't even know if I was gonna be able to keep my house.
Speaker 2:And now, through 25, 26 books, we have worked on mindset, we've worked on wealth, we've done a lot of work with wealth, we've done a lot of work with basically all aspects of self development, and people can see that I now am richer than I've ever been, I'm happier than I've ever been, I'm thriving, I'm traveling, I've got three children on my own. I'm bloody doing it, man, I'm living proof. And I think that's what people wanna see is. They like to see the transformation and then they get on board with it. I don't even have to really sell the book club. People see it and they see what I'm doing every month and they're like I want a part of that. I want my life to glow up and then here we are.
Speaker 1:One of the threads I keep seeing through all of these different ways you've monetized from the book club to the physical products, to the courses, to the New Year's Day party all of them are that you have a very specific audience, that you have put something out into the world and said here's what I wanna be interested in.
Speaker 1:I'm into this law of attraction. I think that this would be really good for your life and the people who are interested in that find you. And then you say, okay, we've now built a community around a specific idea, and then so this makes sense for us all to have the same workbook or the same journal, or the type of jewelry that I would like is actually the type of jewelry you like. You've created a validated audience that you know things that they will probably find valuable. And so when you start posting things like hey, we're gonna try a book club that you can actually get a thousand people to join. If I started a book club right now, I have not built a community around books or around a specific topic, and so the chances that I would get a thousand people to sign up is zero. And so I love how kind of building the podcast and building the Instagram community, have really easily moved right in to monetizing all of this audience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that that only works if the community is genuine, and I think that there's a million books out there and there's a million posts on how to build a community.
Speaker 2:But, you can only build a community if your intentions are pure. When I started this, I was finding lockdown hard and I just thought I do know tools to help get myself out of this. I'm sure this could help other people too, and I think it's through genuinely wanting to help other people, especially people that are similar to, maybe, single mothers, people in the same situation. I think that is what genuinely builds a community. And do you know what? The community, especially the book club community, are incredible.
Speaker 2:There's a woman that recently, whilst doing one of the books, realized I need to leave my husband Like this is a really toxic relationship. I need to get out with my children. The book club members fundraised over $3,000 to help her leave her husband and to get out and to go to a thing. And there's people that can't afford the book one particular month. Other people will say give me your address, I'll send you a book, I'll buy it on Amazon and I'll send it to you. That is the kind of people you know I do in the name of the book club, which is that's what we call ourselves the book club bitches.
Speaker 2:I do a charity donation every single month to a different charity. That kind of resonates with whatever we're doing. That is the kind of community that we've built and I think a part of that is you have to be really real and honest and I have been through a goddamn journey with these people and I think because particularly the Patreon it's behind a paywall you feel like you can be a little bit more honest with people and you know people have seen me cry and be genuinely like devastated, to go through the hardest of times and I think if you're honest with people and you're not just sitting there saying, if you do these 10 tips, you can have a yacht this time next year, you can buy a dream house. I'm not saying that Sometimes I'll say this shit is not working for me. I feel really down. This hasn't worked. This is where my life is going badly, this is where it's going well.
Speaker 2:People respect that, but that has to be a two-way thing and I respect them as well. I will never sell something that I don't feel is genuine or good for them. I'm not gonna suddenly start doing really high priced. I don't know things I don't believe in. I just don't Even down to the things that I do affiliate marketing with.
Speaker 2:The only things I promote are things like Hello Fresh, which I genuinely think have taught me to cook and help me to improve my health, and these vitamins that call better you, that are like oral sprays, because I've got Crohn's disease and I can't digest vitamins through my stomach. It's the whole thing. It's like things that I'd see them and I'm like that would really help people. You're never gonna find me doing an advert for vaping. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't matter how much money it is, I just won't. So I think that respect goes two ways. If you respect your community, they will thank you forever and they will pay for things and they will be happy to be a part of it. But that respect goes both ways. I have to respect them as well and not ever try and push something that I don't believe is good for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that is so important. I mean, we've seen in podcasting people who do kind of go on this fake journey for a bit. You can't really keep that up a whole long time. You know, if you're doing 45 minute episodes every week, you can only keep that facade up for some amount of time. After a few months it's gonna show through.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's not really who this person is. They're telling me to buy this thing, but it doesn't even look like they're actually using the thing they're telling me to buy. Or they're recommending a course on how to do a particular thing, start a YouTube channel, but they don't even have a YouTube channel and all of the kind of. Just the fakeness starts to really show through and what you end up with is an audience that's churning through pretty quickly. You might be getting a lot of new people, but as soon as people kind of see through the lies, they just move on and they go. Okay, this was all a scam the whole time. It's much better to really be living than telling authentically, like here's what I'm interested in and trying to teach. When you're doing that, you're going to attract people and then they will not end up leaving to go somewhere else.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's what is the power behind sort of like micro-influences, and I only realized this recently how much more powerful you are as a micro-influencer if your following is engaged and loyal. So we all know like the Kardashians are really big celebrities that will promote this, that and the other, and actually I bet their follow through rate like is really low compared to you know, because people are just like, oh, they're selling another thing.
Speaker 2:And I realized this when I had a really, really big guest on my podcast. She had that 1.2 million followers and in my mind I was like, oh my God, if even 1% of her followers listened to the podcast, and then my numbers would be bigger than ever, and even if 1% of that 1% joined my book club, I'd be a bloody millionaire. And actually, what happened? Nothing. Having that person on my podcast with 1.2 million followers, I had no higher engagement than normal. I had no higher sales than normal. Nothing happened. And I realized that's because the people that follow someone that's been on reality TV or someone that's, you know, Kim Kardashian. I think I might follow Kim Kardashian. Am I super invested in everything she says and would I buy everything that she promotes? Hell no. But if I'm following a small podcaster, you know I can think of several podcasters I follow who are, you know, under 100,000 followers. If they suggest something, I'll probably go and buy it, because there is just that real connection, and I'm already thinking.
Speaker 2:There's a podcast called Nachbut. There are several things that she has recommended that I've gone and bought. She's got like 26,000 followers on Instagram and I think that that is a lot more powerful than someone like Kim Kardashian doing a sponsored post. How many people really click through? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean what you're hitting on there is we follow people for different reasons. So there's some people that I, you know you may follow just because they were kind of wild on that reality show you watched and you're just kind of like watching the drama. You're not actually listening to what they have to say about the world. There's people you may follow because they're really attractive, and so you're just trying to see what tips they have for being attractive. And then there's other people you're paying attention to because you know they have excellent taste in books or they're really really good at something you're trying to learn, and those are the people who are going to have influence over purchasing decisions. And so again, this kind of comes back once again to picking the right niche, the right thing for you to talk about with a podcast or any other. Creation really allows you, opens up a lot of doors later on because you really identified an audience that you want to speak to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:One of the things. I don't know how comfortable you are with this, so you feel free to shut it down and we can edit it out. Of all of the different areas that you have monetized, can you talk a little bit maybe not in exact numbers, but like order of magnitude which of these have been most successful and which of them have been? It's nice that you set it up, but they're not the main drivers of income.
Speaker 2:So one of the books we did actually was called the One Thing, and it was all about how we dilute our energy and our focus over things, whereas if you actually look, quite often one thing will earn, say, 80% of your income or 80% of your results. And so in the process of doing that book, I was like, right, I need to re-look at things, and I found that I was spending a lot of time creating content around my gratitude necklaces, whereas in reality my gratitude necklaces probably make me 800 pound, a thousand pound a month, whereas my book club is like my real, that is my main thing. That was earning me. I mean, right now I think it earns me 27,000 pounds a month.
Speaker 1:And that's on a consistent basis.
Speaker 2:It's been over 20,000 pounds a month for over a year now. So that is my real, my main focus, my main priority, because it's very consistent and I think that that speaks for itself, that of course, people are always coming and going, but there's a real, constant fan base there. There's constant members that are not leaving because they're seeing the changes in their lives and it is a real. You know what? It's such a bloody genius idea, even if I do say so myself, because everybody wants to read books, right, and it's a very different hobby. One hobby is buying books. It's a completely different hobby to actually read the books and to do them. You know, they're two completely different things. And so many people have good intentions that they want to read a self-development book, but we just don't. And I was included. I didn't. I said I've got three young children, I haven't got time to read a book. So, finding something that will capture people's imagination and they want to listen to the podcast, they want to be entertained, and so they will keep up with the book because they want to keep on with it it's bloody genius. It's genius and it works. So that really speaks for itself. But then, yeah, things like the Goals Workshop.
Speaker 2:That was incredible to do 50,000, I think I earned 50,000 pounds. That was in like one month. I released it two or three weeks before I actually did it. So that was incredible. But that's really like a one-off thing. It would have been really tempting to do a new course every two or three months, but I don't want to do that Unless I feel called to talk about something. I'm not going to do it just for the sake of it. So the courses are incredible. Something that I released recently is subliminal audios. So this has gone wild, right See? Have you heard about subliminals?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Oh man, this is going to change a lot.
Speaker 1:Are these like the tapes that you could get in the 90s on, like it would talk to you while you slept so that you could lose weight or quit smoking?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, but they were affirmations. But do you know what they worked? They actually do work. There's a lot of scientific evidence behind them. Google evidence of subliminals. Do you know? There are huge companies. I think Apple used subliminals, mcdonald's used them in that advertising. There's quite a few. If you Google it, there's a lot of big, big brands that use them. It's illegal in certain countries to use them in adverts now, but people do so.
Speaker 2:Basically, they're audios that are an hour long and you can either hear the affirmations or you can have them subliminal, which is that the music is higher and you can't actually really hear them with, like, the naked ear, but they're going in subconsciously and I have them on creating wealth, perfect health, fertility, finding your soulmate, happiness, success, all these different things. I've even got them for children to feel confident at school and be be well behaved, like going to bed eating their greens or that shit that you want your children to do. And do you know what I released those? They've gone wild. They've sold. They sell about 20,000 pounds a month and they are three pounds each.
Speaker 1:You do the maths.
Speaker 2:That's 20,000 pound a month and they are literally I can't actually work that out, but it's a lot of subliminals and that, again, is one of those things where number one, I wouldn't sell them if I genuinely didn't think that they worked and I didn't use them myself. Number two, the people are the best advertising. The people that buy them are my best advertising. I get messages every single day saying you won't bloody believe it. I bought your wealth subliminal. The other day. I've been listening to it every night. Today I got a pay rise, or today I came into whatever, I came up with a business idea and I'm now you know whatever, and so I just screenshot them. I make them anonymous, so I get rid of their name and whatever in their profile picture and I repost them on my stories with the link to it and the testimonials sell them. I don't have to market them, I don't have to pay for advertising. I don't have to do any of that stuff because the results speak for themselves. So that has been an unexpected hit. I love them.
Speaker 1:That's incredible. One of the ways we I mean the way we got connected is that you also started using BuzzFraher ads a few weeks ago and quickly became. You definitely popped up on our radar once we started doing a payouts to your PayPal address. So can you tell us a little bit about how you've used BuzzFraher ads?
Speaker 2:Yes. So when I discovered that they had started that, I was like oh my God.
Speaker 2:Finally, because I have tried to get advertising on the podcast for the longest of time, with varying degrees of success. So I have people email me and then it's a whole thing backwards and forwards how much they're going to charge. It's just a whole thing. I've tried that thing pod corn. It's just a ball lake. It's great for people that have the time. I personally don't have the time for all of that. What I loved about BuzzFraher ads is that they just get inserted in it's dynamic content. I don't have to do a goddamn thing. All I have to do is approve the adverts and say if they fit with my audience or not. So I absolutely love it.
Speaker 2:And then they just pay you, which is great, it's true passive income. So I'm here for it. I did have one or two people message saying oh, I really hate that you have an advert in the middle of your podcast and it's like you know what? I'm creating all of this for free. So if you are watching ITV and you're watching Love Island or something, you would have to sit through adverts. So if you are not willing to support a single mum creating this content for free for you and you don't want to listen to a 30 second advert, shame on you. So, yeah, we've got past that, though. Now People are used to them now and, yeah, I absolutely love them. I think it's a great idea. But I was saying to Marshall, I do think it needs to be not other podcasts advertising, it needs to be brands Like imagine if you started to get brands small businesses, big businesses advertising you would be away. You and me would be on a yacht in Ibiza.
Speaker 1:There. Maybe by the time this video is out, there will be brands in your bus for ads. So that is absolutely the plan for the future.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited he keeps promising it. I'm waiting for it.
Speaker 1:Can you, can you tell me a little bit about the actual workflow that you're using for bus for ads?
Speaker 2:What have I got to share my secrets on how I'm the top earner? So, yeah, when they first started, I got a little bit obsessed with it and I just keep a tab open, yeah, on my browser and just every single time. And you have, I would check it like twice a day and every time a new advert came up I would check it and I would just accept it, because I think obviously a lot of the advertisers were podcasts or maybe people with quite small budgets. So I quickly realized that if I'm one of the first people to click on it, I'm going to be the person that gets those ads because their budget is going to be gone in a certain number of days.
Speaker 2:So I was quite like I was. I was hot on like clicking yes, please, online. And yeah, I think by the second month I don't $5,000 in advertising, which was incredible, to go from absolutely nothing. I think the first month was like $1,500. You know, $1,500. That's not far off what I was earning in my first full time job, you know, 10 years ago when I started work. So that is not a small amount of money. And then, yeah, it went up to $5,000 and hopefully it will just continue to grow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you mentioned a second ago about trying to work out advertising yourself, and so one of the things that a lot of people are often weighing is when you do the advertisements all yourself, you source them, you go back and forth, you do a host read ad, you bake it into the episode, you can often get a higher CPM the actual amount paid per thousand listeners but you trade that off with, obviously, the work spent sourcing those ads. How have you managed that trade off?
Speaker 2:It is an absolute nightmare. Do you know what? I actually even hired a professional to try and get me sponsorship for the podcast and she failed. She didn't get it. She did not get it. We could not find there's something about my podcast that, like I don't seem to get people wanting to sponsor or help. I don't know. We just found it really, really difficult. They want to know your engagement rates, they want to know this, they want to know that it wasn't worth the amount of work for a one or two episode deal, what for me to record to show that it's just not worth it.
Speaker 2:So I kind of gave up and my kind of midway thing was that I teamed up with a couple of brands to do affiliate marketing, and one of them was with you guys. If I recommend Buzzsprout, I get I think it's $15 or 15 pounds, which is amazing Because, again, it's one of those things that I would naturally recommend. I talk all the time about. If you want to start a podcast, use Buzzsprout. Like I'm an idiot and I managed to figure it out in my little 10 year old laptop, so you should be able to do it too. So I did it with Buzzsprout, I do it with Hello Fresh, I do it with this other company that does vitamins, and that's a really easy way to do it. So with Buzzsprout you can insert dynamic content.
Speaker 2:So I make a pre-roll and a post-roll. Don't know why you don't have a mid-roll, don't know, but I don't know if that's coming. But I created Adverts one time on there that were for my not my own brand, but they were for these companies that I'd have affiliate marketing with. Then I would put a link in the show notes down below and I would earn a decent amount of money from that. You know I did that with Hello Fresh and I would earn about 700 pounds a month from doing that. So that was a great kind of midway solution until Buzzsprout ads came up. And I still do use those. I still do use the pre-roll and the post-roll for both those affiliate marketing things but also for my own things. You know, if I'm, I have a workshop that's a manifesting money workshop. I have a whole spoken advert for that and I sometimes will put that as my pre-roll for a couple of weeks and, yeah, I see results from it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the nice thing about using dynamic content over baking things into episodes is back catalogs account for a lot of podcasts over half of their downloads.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so if you're going to just say, hey, I'm going to do this course next week, well, that isn't accurate for half of the people who ever listened to it, because they're listening to an episode from two years ago and maybe it is something they'd be interested in. But now they realize, oh, I've missed out on this opportunity. When you're using dynamic content, especially when you're talking about timely things or advertisements, you can update the rates as your podcast changes sizes and you can let people know this is happening now. So, no matter when you listen to this, it is true like this course is happening next week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it stops your old episodes from feeling dated. I think if you do have an advert that's like it's 2021 next week, so we've got a new year's deal for you, like nah, it just makes it feel super dated. So, yeah, I think dynamic content is the way forward. For that reason, but also just because, yeah, the sheer work involved. I don't have the time to be going backwards and forwards and negotiating with people recording an advert. Do they like it, do they not? I ain't got time for that. Insert that stuff in. Don't let me know, give me the money.
Speaker 1:Oh man, fritz, this has been an awesome interview. I know that we're kind of coming up on. The end of your time is before we go. Is there anything, any advice you would give to a new podcast or somebody starting to create things online?
Speaker 2:I would just say number one use Buzzsprout, because it honestly is that I genuinely touch wood. I've never had a technical issue with Buzzsprout ever in my life and I deal with a lot of apps and technical difficulties. My whole website has just gone down, so it's like to never have a technical issue. That is absolutely incredible. That's why I recommend it all the time. But use somewhere like that. Use the advertising, use the dynamic content things and, like I say, if you don't have sponsors for the show, there are ways around it.
Speaker 2:You can start to earn even a small income by doing affiliate links, creating your own pre and post role things.
Speaker 2:Create a podcast about something you're passionate about, because anything's exciting for the first week, the first three weeks. But you need to have something that when you are on your deathbed and you're really ill or you've just got back from a three day bender in Ibethrin, you just want to sleep. You've got to have something that you really want to talk about and it makes you get out of bed and record every single week, because if you're consistent over a period of time, it will be successful. It will be. You have to believe it will and it will. So as long as you've got the belief and the consistency, buzzsprout is the perfect partner to take you there, because without that, like you say, the distribution, I could never get it out there. And don't think that by DIYing it at home on your own it's ever going to hold you back, because look at me, number one in the UK for self development pretty much every week, and it's just me at home doing it with my 60 pound microphone on a 10 year old laptop. Look at me living my life.
Speaker 1:What am I doing? So? Yeah, just do it. You don't know how much joy it brings me to hear you say all that, but also that you are using the Samsung Q2U, which we talk about all the time. So many people. They use the lack of specific tech to be the explanation for oh, this is why I'm being held back, when really so many of the top podcasters are using really basic and cheap and inexpensive tech. All the stuff, the microphone I'm using right now. This stuff is more expensive but it's not needed, so I love that you're doing it with the $60 microphone and the 10 year old laptop. That's incredible.
Speaker 2:Do you know what? I'm such a technophobe? I have a brand new MacBook that I'm using right now, but I can't switch from my 10 year old. I can't. I can't because I'm such a technophobe, so because you guys told me to buy this microphone, that's what I'm doing. I'm still using it two years on. But that is genuinely what I loved about it is. It's so easy to give up when you hit a thing in the road where you're like, oh, I can't figure this out, I can't do it. But you guys did genuinely make it so easy for me and I was saying that to Marshall, like I'm so, so thankful because without you lot, I couldn't have done this and it has truly changed my life. So anyone listening can do this as well. You don't need a studio, you don't need anything. You can just do this from home. And, yeah, do it and use my referral code. Put it in the link.
Speaker 1:We'll do it. If you're watching this on YouTube or you're listening to the podcast, we will put your referral link down.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, will you? Yes, oh my God, let's see how many I get. This is interest, oh this is great.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for coming on and chatting, podcasting and creating and just everything, for being really open, also about the monetization. I think that's an area that's really nerve wracking for a lot of new podcasters, because we see some of the big shows doing it and we know early on like it's hard to figure out. What does this look like for me in the future? Can I ever quit my job? Can I ever take this full time? So thank you so much for all of the advice and everything you gave us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Actually, do you know what one thing I've just remembered is? I remember in your series of videos where you are like how to start a podcast, one of the things that I never forget this you said never start a podcast if you want to use it to earn money and like make it your job, because the vast majority of people don't. And guess what bitches I have.
Speaker 1:I always remember that.
Speaker 2:You're really wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's too many people who get it, who have been sold a course on starting a podcast that claims day one you'll be monetizing, and I just can't help to. I can't accept telling somebody something that may not be true for them.
Speaker 1:And so to promise somebody, hey, go ahead and do this, you'll be able to quit your job, it's just dishonest, yeah. But what is true is creating anything, even if it's for a small audience, is good for your soul, like it's good for you to be creating things and to put it in your voice out into the world. Even if it's just for you to learn what is meaningful to me and to be working on it, that is still valuable, even if it doesn't turn into hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't have to be your job. It could, like you say, it can just be your passion. You know, we did a book called Working Hard Hardly Working by Grace Beverly and she says that your income doesn't have to be related to your passion and actually you can work your micro passions into your income. So say, for example, if you had a pet shop, right, and that's your living, it's been in your family for three generations and that's how you earn your income, you really can't quit it. But you love podcasting or you love whatever, there's nothing to stop you working micro passions into that existing job. So you could say to your boss or whatever you could say how do you feel about me starting a podcast about working in a pet shop and about all the different pets?
Speaker 2:we have and about do you know what I mean? Special animal care, or you could start YouTube shorts on that. So yeah, like you say, you don't have to turn this into your living. You can always insert your little micro passions into your existing job. It's basically for anyone. It's just try it. It's a great laugh.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for spending this time with us. I really appreciate it and hope that everyone who watches this just gets as much as I did. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you, thank you.
