Buzzsprout Conversations
Welcome to Buzzsprout Conversations, the show where we dive into the real-life stories of podcasters in the middle of their podcasting journey.
You'll hear stories from famous podcasters as well as everyday podcasters, just like you, share stories about how podcasting has impacted them and the things they've learned.
Buzzsprout Conversations
Kate Casey: Podcast Success, Community Building, and Time Management
Ever wonder how you can create a thriving community around your podcast? Join us as we sit down with Kate Casey, the dynamic host of 'Reality Life with Kate Casey' podcast. She's taking us behind the scenes of her successful podcast, revealing how she’s been able to build a robust community around her show and break stories that you can't find anywhere else. Kate's insights on multitasking and time management are invaluable for any content creators looking to maximize their potential.
Immersing ourselves in conversations about active listening, we glean essential lessons from Kate on the art of meaningful interaction. She shares her process for creating a safe space for guests to unpack their stories, and how she navigates interviews with the deftness that comes from her background in media consulting and law. Plus, Kate isn't shy about discussing the gender bias in podcasting - be ready for some real talk about the challenges she's faced as a female podcaster, and how she's using her platform to elevate other women in the space.
Don’t miss our deep dive into the monetization of podcasts. Kate shares her experiences, shedding light on the pros and cons of different strategies such as using Patreon or signing with a podcast network. But beyond the financial gains, she also highlights the joy of running a successful show and the non-monetary benefits that come with it, like becoming a sought-after speaker or connecting with other creatives. Listen in for a compelling discussion that might just inspire your next big podcasting move!
🎧 Listen to the Reality Life with Kate Casey podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
✅ Follow Kate on Twitter - https://twitter.com/KateCasey
✅ Follow Kate on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/katecasey
Subscribe to Buzzsprout Conversations on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app.
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some of you lost your family members during the election. You don't know where they are. Do you have been fighting with them about politics? You need to bring them back, and I'm going to do that for you. And then you're going to reach across the couch and you're going to clang your gin glasses and you're going to put one finger up in the air and you're going to go. I'm never going to let you go again.
Speaker 2:Today on the podcast I have Kate Casey. Kate is the host of reality life with Kate Casey. It's a top rated podcast and Apple podcast where she interviews the directors, producers and reality stars from all of unscripted television. Kate's been podcasting for five years and so I'm really excited today to kind of pick her brain and ask her questions about podcast networks, pitching big guests and growing a podcast. She has a lot of expertise in all those areas. So, Kate, thank you so much for joining me on the show.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:We connected over Clubhouse a couple of weeks ago and I can't remember what the question was, but it was something about networks and you came up on stage and kind of like blew everybody away. So we ended up talking for like 20 minutes after the room had ended, and that was when I was like, oh, we've got to get you onto our YouTube show 20 minutes.
Speaker 1:I felt like it was like 40 minutes.
Speaker 2:Well, I definitely. As soon as we got off, I was instantly like trying to get you into a private room because I was like I got to get your email address. I have to figure out how we can reconnect and, you know, actually do this conversation, Because I knew if I didn't connect right away that we would probably out of lost you.
Speaker 1:Well, I like to say I sucked you into the KKC vortex. I pull people in and then they don't leave and they're like I have to go do things and I'm like, no, you got to stay here.
Speaker 2:So full disclosure. I had to ask somebody from the Buzzsprout team to go through your guest list to tell me who is who are the big names, Because I have no understanding of reality TV. I watched Love is Blind last year before the coronavirus shutdown, but besides that I do not understand unscripted television. Can you tell me a bit about your podcast and who the target audience is?
Speaker 1:Unscripted television is the umbrella of reality shows, docu-series and documentaries, and my show is focused on unscripted television, so I interview reality stars, but also the people who make docu-series, reality shows and documentaries. So executive producers, directors, sometimes hosts it's really anybody that I find compelling the people behind the lens or in front of the lens, in any of those three pockets. So one episode could be, you know, feature somebody from a show like the Bachelor or the Real Housewives, but the next episode could be somebody who created a documentary about a sports figure, or it could be somebody who was featured in a documentary about a true crime case. So I like to think that I have my finger on the pulse of what people are interested in or should be interested in in unscripted television. So real stories about real people.
Speaker 2:I love it. One of the things that I kept running into as I was researching you and your podcast was you have like an incredible community that you've built around your podcast. You have a Facebook group with nearly 16,000 members. You have a very active group on Clubhouse and everywhere that I found you on social media or just reading reviews on Apple Podcasts, people talked about the community feel they have with you and everybody else. So can I actually read you a snippet of someone's Apple Podcast review?
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:They talked about how much they love the show, your great interviewer, and then they said I feel like Kate and I would be good friends. She just gets me in my quirky TV movie preferences and I thought that was like such high praise. Someone's like listening to the show and kind of feeling this kinship with you. Can you just give an idea of how are you building this community feel with everyone who's listening to your podcast?
Speaker 1:Well, I've always kind of come with the idea that people who watch reality shows also watch true crime or listen to true crime podcasts. They're the same people who read nonfiction books. They're the same people who like to hear about stories that are featured on CNBC business stories. They're the same people that watch the Dateline. There's a common thread and I always feel like I watch things and I want someone to talk to about it. Like my husband watches something totally different than I do. He likes to watch more movies than people being, you know, murdered in Mogadishu, and I'm like that's depressing. He's like, no, what you watch is depressing. I'm like, no, seriously, what you're watching is depressing. So I want someone to chat with because my husband's on the other side of the couch watching something totally different.
Speaker 1:So even in the beginning of Twitter, years and years and years ago, I started writing like is anybody else watching this? What do you think of this? And I found the relationships that I built based on asking the questions is somebody else watching this? I was like building a tribe. So, you know, I started my show four and a half years ago and I remember the first episode that I had. I had 2000 lessons in a day. And now that I look back I really that's kind of impressive, because at that point yeah, that's incredibly impressive because at that time, people were like what's a pop?
Speaker 1:They're like a pop cast. Like what's a pop cast? A poop cast, what is that? I would be on the street showing people how to find it on their phone. So I think that the great luck that I had with that first episode was because I had spent so much time cultivating relationships with the people who read my blog, who read my recaps, who read my parenting articles, all the things that I had done once I left PR building relationships with people based on a common interest in things. So I think it's a really essential part of being a podcaster is building a community, because I mean, how boring would that be to just talk about yourself and to yourself all the time and not have any interaction? But also, I'm absolutely an extrovert. I need to be around people to charge my battery, and so interaction is really, really important to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot of people who they are kind of just doing the podcasting piece of it, where it's just a one way street. They talk to their audience and then they often tell us, like, how do I get feedback? You know, I only have a handful of reviews. How do I get more reviews? How do I get people to interact with me? And we're like, you know, start a Facebook group, start a clubhouse, do whatever you can to connect with your audience, because, in reality, like that's what we're looking for. We're looking for the connection with our audience. And if it's just that one way street where we talk about ourselves or whatever we're interested in and kind of leave us disconnected from the people who enjoy the podcast, so it sounds like you were already a part of the community we're kind of building it on Twitter and your blog for quite a while before you started the podcast. What else have you done? Okay, so one of the things I know you do is you do homework for your podcast. What does that look like?
Speaker 1:I do two episodes a week Wednesdays and Fridays and I always came with the belief and when I pitched the show to a network four and a half years ago, I said I want to build a show that's structured like a television show, so with an opening and a closing and a featured guest and then a second guest, sort of like Ed McMahon, sitting next to Johnny Carson at the couch. So with each episode, at the top of the episode I'm going to tell you what I watched this week and recommend other things for you to watch, and then I have my two guests and then I close it out. In addition, I started about I don't know eight months ago putting out a what to watch list, so every week now on Mondays, and people can subscribe to that on Substack. I put that out on Substack so people can get it to their email inbox every Monday, but I also put it on all my socials and now I do a reel where I'm explaining what the shows are. I do a clubhouse talk every Monday where I go through the list like this is what you need to watch this week and I make jokes.
Speaker 1:But I'm serious that I feel like I'm bringing couples together, I'm bringing families together. I'm bringing roommates together because a lot of people at the end of the day want to sit and relax and they argue about what do we watch and they're scrolling through things and they're sort of lost and I'm giving them a bunch of options. So it's like true crime sports, housewives, romance. I give them a variety. It's like a poo poo platter of TV shows. And you know, somebody just wrote me this week. They said I'm staying with my dad in quarantine and thank you for the recommendation on the ESPN documentary about the masters. My dad is now asking me ask Kate, what I should watch next, which is great.
Speaker 1:So, it's like I'm now building relationships multi generations because I'm giving people options and homework and then at the closing of every episode I say OK, I can't wait to circle back with you because on Friday I'm going to talk to so and so who I mentioned to you last week, so I've given you enough time to watch the program. So now that you're up to speed and I think that's great too, because I want to help people have conversation starters I watched a prodigious amount of television as a child. I mean insane, and some would argue that was poor parenting and maybe they're right, but I always feel like I can talk to anybody because I think that pop culture referencing is a very valuable way of starting a conversation. So I think that this is a great conversation. To start with, like, what's the last thing you watched?
Speaker 1:Well, I watched Formula One. Drives a success and turns out. I didn't know anything about Formula One racing and now I'm like a scholar on it. I watched a documentary about the nexium cult what do you think about that? And it sparks conversations with people and the best podcasters are both interested and interesting, in the same way that a dinner party guest is. You're the best dinner party guest if people think you're interested and interesting. So I just I'm trying to give people homework so that they have things to watch at night, but also they can start conversations with anybody anywhere.
Speaker 2:And so you give the homework and people are very invested. They're watching the shows and they're getting. They're very invested.
Speaker 1:They're people write me. They're like okay, I'm down to number five. It's like they feel like it's a high achievement. I should be giving out gold stars, because sometimes people get all the way down to number eight and they're like I have blown you out of the water because I'm down to number eight.
Speaker 1:And I have to say, people are hungry for information. Now. I mean, we've lived in an era of like Instagram, where people are posing in bikinis on a tropical vacation and it's like what value does that bring? Now people feel like they're armed with all this knowledge based on these sometimes even obscure shows that I'm bringing out of nowhere. Like did you see the Amazon eco-challenge in Fiji? Well, you know, not a lot of people watch that, so I suggested that.
Speaker 1:Now people are like can you believe that when you're in Fiji, that you have to go to these different villages and they have a whole ceremony for you, and that the people that are competing in that are not only extreme athletes but they have such interesting personal stories?
Speaker 1:Like there was one duo that were two extreme athletes, a father and a son, but the father now is Alzheimer's, so his son decided to compete with his father, so he could have won, probably if not for the fact that his father is Alzheimer's.
Speaker 1:But it was this really special life experience that he could share with before his father really started to deteriorate and also showed people the effects of Alzheimer's on personal relationships, on your health and to see this man in his prime. And now when people think of Alzheimer's they're gonna think of this man and have a connection to it in a way that maybe they read about Alzheimer's in an article but it didn't really kind of raise a flag for them because they didn't know anybody. But sometimes with people on television they have you build this one way intimate relationship where they feel connected to you. So I just think there's so many benefits to watching someone else's story, and unscripted television is at its absolute best when it shows someone in a different pocket of the world and peels back the layer and makes you think more about who you are in this world and who else is in the world. It shapes a global perspective.
Speaker 2:I think it's interesting that you're talking about how reality television or unscripted television does that, where we see these stories and then it kind of allows us to understand people and human nature better, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But then you're actually doing the same thing, because you're creating this content yourself and it's allowing people to connect to you. But you're taking it a step further. Your Facebook group has something like 16,000 members in it who are there to talk about unscripted television and your podcast. How do you, I mean, I guess, how did you start that and how did you know that that was going to be a successful way to engage with your audience?
Speaker 1:I think that people who listen to my show would be great friends. If they lived on the same street, they would be getting their mail.
Speaker 1:They'd be grabbing a glass of wine at the end of the week and say listen to what happened to me this week, or did you see this? So I thought it would be a great opportunity to give people a place to meet, and I'm also a firm believer in sharing information and uplifting others. So it's also a great space for people are very welcome to share other podcasts that they enjoy, books that they read. In fact, someone just wrote me last night. They said let's start at KKC Book Club. So we're going to do that now. So it's like branches outside of, just unscripted, because I feel like all of these people would be friends if they lived in the same street. So I'm giving them an opportunity to connect, to build relationships and to uplift one another, because there are some in my group who you know.
Speaker 1:One woman just wrote a book, which is great because now she is a place where she could really market her book because she's built this relationships with strangers and she knows that her book is something that they would like. So I want other people to connect and share information and I think it's a really very important thing that a podcaster can do and something that podcasters do that I don't think other people in the entertainment space do. I truly think that podcasters are the kindest collaborators in the entire world. Sometimes I'm asked how do you handle competition? And I always say I just don't think of it as competition. I think seeing it as an opportunity for collaboration. So if somebody is in my space I always reach out and say I love what you do, let's partner up, because they have an audience, I have an audience, and then we can just help each other grow the market.
Speaker 2:The way that we know we're in a market that's growing is what you said earlier in the podcast that you have shown people how to subscribe to a poopcast on their phone.
Speaker 2:They don't know what you're talking about, they don't know what that purple app is for, and you're going no, no, no, it's a podcast, here's my show, let's subscribe. And then they're brought into not just your podcast, but this whole world of millions of podcasts on every topic that they could be interested in, and they may find themselves creating a podcast later down the line. And that's how we know that this is still a growing market, when we're all still doing the work of showing people how to subscribe, because we're not doing that for television, we're not doing that for TV, we're not doing that for YouTube, but it's still happening for podcasting. So I love that you're using your platform to elevate other people who are doing similar type podcasts.
Speaker 1:It's so important. It really is, especially for women. If you look at the ratings for podcasts, more women get 4.5 ratings.
Speaker 1:People are more apt to give a 5-point rating to a man and it's endlessly frustrating for me. So I feel like the female story is always kind of my North Star and I really work hard to uplift other female podcasters because there are less of us and we're strong, incredibly creative and probably infinitely more collaborative hosts of shows. So I always remind people if you love a female podcast, please share it and believe. A 5-star review for the love of God, yeah, whenever.
Speaker 2:I look at reviews. You're right. If it's a female host, there are so many more 1-star ratings Like somebody who hated the podcast went out of their way. I mean, I listened to hundreds of podcasts. I listened to the first 10 minutes ago. This isn't for me and move on. But there's something I don't know why. There's a subset of people that if they're listening to a podcast and they hate it, they go. I better let the whole world know she's not as funny as she thinks this isn't as interesting, her voice is annoying or whatever it may be.
Speaker 2:And then they go leave the 1-star review and you're like well, the podcast wasn't for you. That's why you churned after 10 minutes.
Speaker 1:But they're not going to do that for a man. Yeah, they're like who does she think she is to be successful? You think you're funny? No, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, I could do a better job than that. And then they go out of their way to leave a poor review. And I wish that more men would stand up for the women podcasters and say they're all doing extraordinary work and they need the acknowledgement that you so lovingly give to us. We're partners in all of this, we're entertainers, we're informing you, we're working really hard and we support them.
Speaker 2:I know that this American life I believe it was this American life actually created a auto responder to anybody who wrote to them about anybody's voice on the podcast and it basically just wrote back and said hey, the email you sent has been deleted. We have no interest in reading it Because out of hundreds and hundreds of times that people have complained about a host voice, they've always been women's voices and they've never once has somebody complained about like Ira Glass' voice, who doesn't have a great voice for radio. Yeah, and it's just a very strange way for like I don't know, for people to express their dislike of women. I get through critiquing like, oh, I don't like your voice, but there's really nothing else beyond that.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's an easy way to demean somebody, right? It's harder to demean what they're saying because it's not meaningful to them or they're intimidated by someone's power. So it's easy to just demean their voice, because that's not something that they can often control.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's really well put. So if we can switch gears for a second, you talked about starting your sub-stack and doing the clubhouse room, but one thing I often encounter with new podcasters is they feel overwhelmed. There's so many things that they feel like they should be doing. They overwhelm very quickly and going through your history and what you're doing now for your podcast, I feel overwhelmed almost just reading how prolific you are. You do two podcasts a week. Each podcast has two interviews. You're doing the clubhouse, you're doing sub-stack. You have a huge Facebook group, instagram, twitter. You are a stand-up comedian.
Speaker 2:You ran your own consulting firm.
Speaker 1:And I'm producing a TV show, two TV shows right now.
Speaker 2:And you have five children. And five kids? Yeah, and how do you structure your time? And like, introduce the book club? We just I just learned that You're doing the book, you're going to do the book club for the Facebook group. How do you structure your time to get all this done?
Speaker 1:Well, if you want to get done, you give to somebody with a lot of kids. Fact, we just do. We're really, and I'm a woman. Women are great multitaskers. I'm very good at time management. I know when how to use pockets of time. I watch a lot of the shows. At night. When my kids go to bed, I watch shows on the Peloton. Other people listen to music. I watch a show because I want to maximize the time Multitask, exercising and watching, working at the same time.
Speaker 1:I think that also, when you love what you do, that time doesn't really matter. The discipline that doesn't matter. The hard work doesn't matter because you feel like it's valuable. When I was working with law firms, there were a lot of horrible people that didn't appreciate what I did. I felt like I was making horrible people famous. I felt like I was dragging all the time. I would probably procrastinate on projects. I love what I do.
Speaker 1:It's like constantly recharging my battery because every day I'm like what's the next thing I need to watch? Who's the next person I need to interview? That recharges my battery? I've interviewed almost everybody you can imagine, from the Bachelor and Real Housewives. I interviewed a director of Tiger on HBO about Tiger Woods. I was reminded that that director interviewed or did a documentary on Amanda Knox. Then I tracked down Amanda Knox. Then she was on my show two weeks ago, constantly having my battery charged, because I'm thinking about who's the person that I haven't spoken to yet, who has the story that needs to be told. I do think that I'm giving people some really valuable information Like Amanda Knox. There are so many people that wrote me and said I totally called that one wrong. I feel terrible about the fact that I thought she was guilty. This has made me rethink wrongful imprisonment. I get really excited about that.
Speaker 2:There's a great quote Now I'm going to forget who it's from. It says it's incredibly difficult. You can't compete with somebody who's doing something for fun. If you're trying to run a business against somebody else who's just enjoying it and it's play to them. You're not going to be able to beat them. As your guiding star. It needs to be enjoyable. It needs to be something that recharges your batteries and fits your personality. Then it doesn't feel like work.
Speaker 1:It doesn't feel like work. It doesn't. It never does. It truly never does. I just feel like I'm always at the most fun dinner party in the world. All the time it really does. I feel like I meet the coolest people. I feel like I've made some really great friendships.
Speaker 1:I have to tell you, the weird thing, too, is I always feel like I'm at the bottom of the hill. Maybe this is my life experience, but I always feel like I'm chugging up the hill. I need people to find me, to find my show, to find the stories, to listen to that interview, to get to know that person. That also propels me. It's this feeling of I've got to keep going up the hill, keep going up the hill. I do think people get tired of it or they get cynical. I always feel like I'm at the bottom of the hill trying to get back up. That propels me too. Like seriously, if somebody is like I watched your show or I listened to your show the other day and I'm like you did, and then it's like this wind in my sails, I'm like, yeah, all right, all right.
Speaker 2:I love it. You talk about kind of your. You mentioned your career a bit and I didn't know if we would go into this in detail, but you have like a super interesting career, especially for a podcaster. Right, you majored in political science, you were an intern for Al Gore at the White House and then you started your own media consultancy for law firms and politicians. That was actually how we initially bonded over. Clubhouse was for our mutual dislike for our lives in law, and then you did stand-up comedy and wrote a book. How has all of that prepared you for podcasting?
Speaker 1:So my job was basically to read the news all day long and figure out ways to get lawyers quoted. So first, the great thing is, when you work with a law firm some sort of global law firm they're going to have 20 practice areas and you have to. In order to do my job well as a media consultant, you had to know a little bit about every practice area and then you always thinking on my feet, it was a new story every day. So at 9 o'clock am I might be pitching an intellectual property story that has to do with the tech industry, and then at 2, I might be pitching a security story in relation to a major white collar crime case. So every day was a new story, which I thought was really great and kept my battery charged, really kept me on my feet. I worked with the smartest people in the world who constantly challenged me about how much I knew. So I was like I had to read all day long and I had to really cultivate my interviewing skills, because I had to interview the attorney to figure out what made their practice area so interesting, and then I had to sell the attorney and my pitch to a reporter. So, john, I know that you've been covering the Blobby Blah trial. I'd love to put you in touch with Mary McGee because she's one of the top securities lawyers and she can talk about the implications of this case. She's available Thursday between 1 and 4 pm. What number should I have her call?
Speaker 1:And so, as a podcaster, I'm using all those same skill sets when I'm trying to book a really great guest, when I'm trying to interview somebody, when my research skills before I interview somebody and then putting it all into a package afterwards.
Speaker 1:Those are all the things that I learned early in my career and made me so great at what I do. So it feels like a seamless transition to me, although others are expecting somebody who may have started their career in television and that's another great thing from podcasting is like this is my second chapter career and my you know it's easy means my third chapter career, which part of that is producing television shows. Now, I didn't have a background in television but because of what I've been doing for so long and the interviews I've done and the relationships that I've cultivated and being known as the go-to expert on unscripted television, now production companies want to work with me on building shows because I know it works, and so that's a great lesson. For people who are even thinking about podcasting like where can it take me? I never went into a podcast thinking this is what's going to make me famous. I always thought about this is going to help me pivot into a new career trajectory, and I think that that's been very helpful too.
Speaker 2:You've kind of set yourself up to be this hub between lots of people who are watching unscripted television, the people are producing it, the people who are starring in it and kind of everyone in the industry, and so you have a really good feel for what's working, what's not, what people enjoy, and you've kind of set yourself up to be incredibly valuable to everybody, because you just enjoy talking to everyone and you're having fun, but you're actually creating a ton of value by making these groups running the podcast and now you're going to have the opportunity to produce your own television. Because of you became kind of the hub for this niche area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I have a lot of directors that come to me and say I have this new project and I'm dying for you to watch it and tell me what you think. And, conversely, I have an audience that says please tell me what's the new thing I need to watch. This week, like this week, demi Lovato has a new docu-series coming out on YouTube and a lot of people said I would have never even known about it had you not told me. And then for a lot of people it's like oh great, now I can watch this with my daughter, or and we can watch it together, or I can watch this with my father and we can talk about it.
Speaker 1:So I think that, unfortunately, when people think of reality television, they think how can I marry a millionaire? Or the bachelor? Or they think of it as one show and unscripted television is vast and there is an incredible amount of content out there that can really really make anybody happy, because it really covers so much. You know sports, true crime, personal narrative, wellness, anything you can think of. I can probably find you a show that you're going to love.
Speaker 2:You just talked a bit about pitching big guests, and that was something I really wanted to ask a lot about, because a lot of podcasters are dealing with this right now. They're newer podcasts, they want to get some interviews, they basically want to become you, but maybe in a different area where they want to be interviewing all the big names but also connecting them with the audience. How did you start like going through the process of pitching yourself to some of these really big name guests?
Speaker 1:Well, in the beginning I you know, like I told you, I've been pitching experts for so long.
Speaker 1:It was pretty easy. I was a publicist, so I just took myself on as my own client and I'm reaching out to people and making them feel like a million dollars and saying I really appreciate who you are and what you do and I would like to show people or tell a part of your story that's never been told. Maybe I'm telling them the truth, which is on television you seem like this one dimensional person and I want to show people that you're a three dimensional person and there's more to your story. And I like to remind my guests also that when you know someone's backstory, it makes you look through a totally different lens. When you watch a show, so for a housewife, you may think that someone's crazy who gets in dumb fights. But then I'm going to interview them and you're going to find out their whole personal history so that when you watch episodes you're going to go oh right, they tend to be over reactive because this happened to them and I'm going to give them a little bit more grace.
Speaker 2:You also. I mean, that's the power of podcasting is, instead of having something that has been selectively edited, there could be a meandering three hour conversation with someone where you really understand what's the context. You know they had that stupid fight, but you didn't see what happened right before that. Maybe the in while it was being edited. They're kind of edited to become the villain more than they maybe are in real life and so you get so much more context in podcasts versus on TV. Often you've got two minutes. You know if you're on the news or maybe you have a you know five minute interview. You know these very short windows of time to get a story across and you can't really be anything but one dimensional in some other mediums. But then podcasting we can really flesh out, you know the story and understand the person a lot better.
Speaker 1:I agree.
Speaker 2:So what does a good pitch look like You're? You found someone. You want them on the podcast. What do you do?
Speaker 1:Well, you have to make them feel like they matter in the world, and so you have to look into who they are, what they write about, what their expert, their expertise is in. So I don't know if I'm contacting somebody who, let's say, they wrote a, they did a documentary on someone. I'm going to reach out to them and I'm going to reference the other projects they've worked on and how, tell them how much I admire their work and what it is about a specific project that I'd like to interview them for, what it meant to me, but also reference parts of it. You have to make people feel like they matter in this world and that what they do is important and that you've done the research. And if you do that, invariably, I tell you, people will be very open to talking to you.
Speaker 2:So you it's you doing the work on the front end to actually know who they are, what other work they've done, what they're passionate about and what doesn't get covered in the typical story.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So you're doing this four times a week. You know you're doing two interviews on Wednesday and two interviews on Friday for your episodes. How are you finding who you want to interview, pitching them, scheduling a time? It's on the fly, the prep.
Speaker 1:It's really on the fly, like today's Tuesday. I have to have my episode for Friday done by close of business tomorrow, so that's 6pm Pacific time. So this morning I was booking my second guest for my Friday show, who is going to do a talk about behind the scenes of daytime TV Because that to me is under unscripted television and that's somebody I met on Clubhouse and I'm like, hey, do you have 20 minutes tomorrow? And they said yes, so I'm going to be researching for my interview tomorrow and that's all coming together at the last minute. Very rarely will you ever hear me say I booked somebody and I'm going to talk to them in three weeks.
Speaker 1:It's always on the fly Because television is so, like you know, on the fly. But again it's just like what I did for a living, where it was like I would wake up and there's a breaking news story and I have to, in one hour, contact every single reporter in that beat and try to get that attorney as many interviews as possible. So I'm already used to that because I've been doing that since I was 20, 22 years old.
Speaker 2:That, yeah, that's super interesting. So everything is like this story is breaking this. This maybe show is starting to trend. People are finding something interesting and you go OK, this is the moment to reach out, find what's valuable for them, to why they would even want to be on the podcast and pitch them and get them on the show relatively quickly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like Framing Britney Spears was a documentary done by the New York Times about Britney Spears' conservatorship and it was like I think I let's say I watched it on a Monday by Wednesday. I already I booked the director, the variety correspondent who covered it and two female podcasters that have a whole podcast about the Britney conservatorship Three guests, one episode within two days. I booked it and booked it like I did the research and the interview within those two days because that was the trending story that week. Sometimes I have stories that break like OK, so there was a show called Southern Charm on Bravo and it's about a group of friends in Charleston, south Carolina, and there was a reunion that these reunion shows afterwards and it was this first part of the two part reunion. The first part airs on a Thursday.
Speaker 1:Craig gets in a fight with Madison and says you're a home wrecker, you have been FaceTiming with an ex Major League Baseball player. So from Thursday, friday and Saturday the online tabloids are like who and people and you know groups and stuff are saying asking each other like who are who could be the ex Major League Baseball player and like four or five players that people thought it was. So on Monday I interview a girl from the show and I ask her now keep in mind, the second part of your union is going to air that Thursday. I said were you sitting on the edge of your seat like we were about to crap our pants wondering who that XMLB player was, and were you shocked when we all heard it could be A-Rod? And she said it was a benign comment? She said I already knew it was A-Rod because she had been talking about it for months.
Speaker 1:That was an interview on a Monday. That airs on a Wednesday at midnight by 5am. It's all over Instagram memes. By 11 o'clock it's the front story of New York Post online and it's blowing up everywhere. People are like A-Rod was FaceTiming with a girl from a reality show and therefore cheating on Jennifer Lopez. I pulled that out of my hat. I booked that guest on Saturday. Interviewer on Monday. Interview aired Wednesday. The second part of the reunion airs Thursday and their ratings went up.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, that was amazing. Yeah, it's crazy. That touched my world. I don't know who the reality star was, but I definitely saw it all with A-Rod and I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is happening. That's just a remarkable story. Thanks for sharing that.
Speaker 1:Oh, and then also I was emailing at 11.30, the episode drops at midnight at 11.30, I was emailing reporters. Heads up, there's an interview coming out here. Here are the bullet points, here's the marker note of when you can go in here, that part. Then the reporters are like great, you've done the work for me. Then they can go back and go to that marker and then just add their own stuff. That's why I get quote. My show gets quoted all over the place is because I send stuff to reporters all the time.
Speaker 2:All right, we're talking about you getting all these links and people are learning about your show and all of these big publications because you're actually breaking stories and you're talking about whatever the hot new show is of the moment. What other things have you done to grow your podcast? Your podcast is doing very well. I know. At least one number I've seen is I can tell just from outside things that it's at least a top 0.1% podcast. It is At least 8 million downloads. Can you give us an idea of how big the podcast is?
Speaker 1:Way more than that, way, way more than that. I've pitched media, and that media placements helps a lot. I have great relationships with the Instagram accounts of the shows that I'm covering. I make sure I get guests that also have a social media reach. When I'm promoting an episode and then I have somebody who has 1.3 million followers on Instagram, for example, they're going to promote the episode. That the second guest is going to promote the episode, then if it's newsworthy, it's going to get in a news article and then that's going to get more attention.
Speaker 1:I'm constantly thinking about who can I get that's going to maximize interest in this episode For Framie and Brittany Spears. I've got the director. She works with New York Times. They're going to put a tweet out or something about my interview. Then I've got the reporter from Variety. Her group, orbit, is going to listen to the episode because she's covered and it's the most interesting story of the week. Then the two podcasters who have an invested interest in Brittany and a podcast about it, because all of their listeners are going to want to listen to them on another show. Then, on top of it, all the people that are following the hashtag of framing Brittany Spears. I'm going to get all of them as well. It's constantly thinking about how can I maximize interest in this episode.
Speaker 2:One of the things we talked about on Clubhouse for a while was how you do audiograms. Because in talking to other pretty big name podcasts that do interviews, a lot of them say I've never been able to get my big name guest to promote my podcast in any meaningful way. Then I mentioned that offhandedly to you. You started giving me all of the best practices. So say your new podcast.
Speaker 1:You have to ask people for assets. May I use your most favorite picture? If people don't like the picture, they're not going to post it. If they don't like the clip, they're not going to share it. So you have to do what puts them in the best light that audio clip, that picture. If I get pressed for them, if they're in page six, I'm so excited I send them the clip. They want to share that. They're in page six, they're in People Magazine, they're in Us Weekly, they're in Cosmopolitan. They want to share that with their followers too.
Speaker 2:I love that question what's your favorite photo of yourself? Can I use it to make these audiograms? That was not obvious to me until you said it that people are not going to share something if you found this older photo of them that they don't really like anymore.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, somebody did it to me this week. I was like I am not sharing that piece of interview because you used the ugliest picture of me.
Speaker 2:Why am I?
Speaker 1:going to do that. Yeah, people are vain. They're like I want to look great. It's like a husband posting a picture of a wife after labor. Like what are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm really happy to be here with you. One of the things I noticed is if I'm ever interviewed on a podcast and they send me the audiogram, I'm always listening to it for content very first. I basically assume this clip is the smartest thing. I said the entire podcast. There's nothing that's better than this. If it's not really good, if I'm not proud of that moment, I'm like I don't want anyone to hear about this podcast, Maybe it's a mistake.
Speaker 1:The onus is on the podcast host to go. I'd love to use that quote where you talked about jibbity jam, because it's so hilarious and I don't think anybody ever says that. And then the guest is like oh, ok, ok, ok, cool, cool, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right. They have to be assured they sound awesome, what they said is super cool and that people will care.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's great and they're relying on you to know they're like.
Speaker 1:Well, she's the expert, she's going to know that what I said about basket weaving was like blowing people's hair back.
Speaker 2:So get the best photo, try to find the very best clip and then communicate to the. To the guest hey, this actually was an amazing clip. I know people are going to love it. You sounded so great.
Speaker 1:You're an all star.
Speaker 2:And then they're going to go.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is awesome. Yeah, like just you retired, You're done Amazing.
Speaker 2:All right, so here are some of the viewing tips. What are some of the biggest mistakes that podcasters make with interviews?
Speaker 1:They talk about themselves too much. No one gives a about you. Stop Stop talking about yourself. Let the get you book. You busted your ass to get this guest. The guest doesn't want to hear about you. They want to talk about themselves. Everybody in the world wants to feel like they're heard and they matter in the world. Stop talking about yourself.
Speaker 2:So you've done 700 interviews, something close to 700 interviews, between all of your episodes. Yeah, so you've done a lot of great episodes. How do you get guests to come out of their shell? A lot of times in the beginning of an interview they're kind of quiet. They're not really feeling that there's no chemistry there. What do you do before you hit record to kind of bring them out of their shell?
Speaker 1:First of all, I've done a lot of research on them and they know it. Because I'm going to reference something that maybe no one knows, I'm going to compliment them, I'm going to make them feel like they're in a safe place. A little beforehand, a couple of rough bullets of like I'd love to touch on this because I think what you've done in this space is really admirable and I'm going to let them talk, I'm going to give them the grace to tell their story and I'm going to compliment them, because it takes a lot for people to open up, so you just have to be a great listener. A lot of people don't listen Truly and I'm one of those people who, okay, like. Here's an example of my totally this is my life.
Speaker 1:I go into a boutique, my husband's trying to find a parking spot. He can't find one. He's annoyed, he wants to leave Albo Island. I have been in a boutique for approximately five minutes and the woman who runs the boutique is telling me the story about how our family's from Mexico and just because I'm a good listener and I ask questions which is simple as it is, but a lot of people don't ask questions because they don't give a s*** about anybody else. She has said to me you know, I've never told this to anybody, but my father lived in Mexico and my mother's boyfriend went to Mexico and murdered him.
Speaker 1:Now I want you to imagine me in that moment, and then my husband is texting me and calling me, asking me if we can leave Albo Island because there are no parking spots. And I'm like I didn't answer. He's like why didn't you pick up? I'm like she just told me this family secret that she's never told anybody to, and he's like you were there for five minutes. What are you talking about? I'm like this is this is what happens when you're me, because I ask questions and I'm a great listener. That's all it is. It's not rocket science, it's like just a basic thing that a lot of people don't even do.
Speaker 2:So do you see your role as a host to just ask questions? And you sound like you're talking a lot about affirmation. You're complimenting people, you're affirming what they're saying is smart and you're making it safe for them to tell you whatever may be about reality television or their deepest family secrets. Are you just trying to create a space for them to kind of tell these stories and then just ask questions about what they're telling you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm setting them up to tell the story of a rock star. I'm making them feel like a million bucks. I have chosen you for this episode because you are such an interesting person and people really want to hear what you have to say and they want to hear your story. I think sometimes podcasters too. When someone's answering the question, they're not actually even listening to the answer because they're teeing up for the next question. And that's a huge mistake, because if people have 10 questions and they're like uh-huh, uh-huh, I got to get to number three, but sometimes the answer that you get for number two might take you down to question number eight. You might pivot and then you got to go back up to question number three.
Speaker 1:Okay, here's an example I'm interviewing Marcus Lamonas, who's the host of the Profit on CNBC, which is their number one show, and he's just like a great, great guy and I thought it was going to be 20 minutes and we're just going to talk about how his show has changed the way people look at their, the way they run their small businesses, and then he tells me the story about how he was adopted into a Greek family and then he goes back to the Greek orphanage in Greece to find out about his birth parents and then finds out he's actually Syrian.
Speaker 1:So that's like an identity crisis because you're like, wait, I thought it was Greek, so that took me off on a pivot.
Speaker 1:And we then he ends up talking about why adoption is such an important issue for him and why building families and helping people see growing their family in a different way is important, and then, at like 10 minutes later, he tells me that when he was a child, he was the victim of abuse sexual abuse. I didn't expect that from a CNBC host. And then we talk about, you know, someone's self worth and how important it is to tell your story, and that sometimes, as painful as it may be to open up about something, that it's really not your shame, it's on the shame of the abuser. That's a whole other pivot. So, by the end of it, it's not the interview that I thought it was going to be, but it's a whole hell of a lot better, because the people who are listening to the interview may never have watched the prophet, but they're rooting for him and they like him and they think he represents the best in people in the world and they're going to follow him for whatever project he's working on.
Speaker 2:So the next question you should ask is not question six on the list of questions you wrote down beforehand. It's the follow up questions, actually what people are saying, because they're going to tell you something so much more interesting than what you guessed to ask maybe a couple days ago.
Speaker 1:You're going to listen to see if you care. So sometimes it's repeating what they just said in a not a formulaic way. People can tell if you're like okay, and then, and then and then and you're going through a list. But if you say something like wait a minute, this is crazy. So you go to Greece and your parents are actually Syrian, what was that like? Because you had self identified as the son of a daughter or son of a Greek immigrants and did that reshape the way you thought about yourself? And they're like oh God, they're really listening to me, what I say really matters. And I'm going to help somebody in the process with my answer, versus somebody who's like uh-huh, okay, and you went to a Greek. And then you went, found out you were Syrian, okay, so when you were on, approach CNBC and they're like why do I want to go with show ever again? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I totally do. You could definitely be in these interviews where you see it is question five and question six and question seven, and as the listener you actually you're only there to listen, and so you can see when the host actively skips ahead to another question and totally misses the exciting thing that was just dropped right there and you're like, oh, I can't wait till they ask a follow up and then they move on because they didn't even realize what interesting thing was just laid out in front of them.
Speaker 1:Also, like I just remembered another thing about that interview that's kind of funny. That ties into it is that in the beginning of that interview he's telling me about how his parents knew Lee Iacocca and he had gone to Lee Iacocca's house and he showed him this series of photos and it said and he was kind of thinking, oh no, this guy's kind of weird Like why is there a timeline? And he said this is my life story. What's yours, marcus? And it was just a great story.
Speaker 1:But when he was telling me he was like then I met with this guy named Lee Iacocca and my stepfather was like a Lee Iacocca crazy fan, like Cougar Bird crazy, and had Lee Iacocca pictures in her house and biographies and I'm like the only person in the world who would probably know about Lee Iacocca. And I was like I know, oh, I know Lee Iacocca. Oh yeah, I could, oh, like that's part of my party. And so that was like a funny moment, like two people talking about this guy who ran Chrysler, you know, like 60 years ago. But I think that he appreciated it was like, oh my gosh, she's like speaking my language, like, but I was making jokes about it, you know, it's like, look at us two nerds talking about a guy who ran Chrysler. You know it's just like, but that's to me again.
Speaker 1:It goes back to that dinner party, like you're at the end of the table and someone's like yeah, when I was a kid I met Lee Iacocca. I'd be like what, wait a minute, lee Iacocca, like random, can I have another glass of wine? And then you push your chair up your leg. We got to talk about this.
Speaker 2:It connects back to what you were saying earlier about you want to be interesting and interested, so you have to actually have done the research on the back end to be interesting Like actually have interesting questions asked. But then you're so interested in your guest that the thought that you're actually listening and pulling out new interesting stories that other people may not have picked up on. And you also talked about watching a lot of TV and pop culture and that's a way to connect with people that they know oh, these are my people, you know. If you hadn't had that experience and knew who Lee Iacocca was, you would have gone okay, like I did, which was kind of you nod and you go, okay, I guess that's a famous person. But actually you having that the background allows you to connect with people and kind of open them up a little bit more.
Speaker 1:I also have this weird tick where I remember details about people, so I'm remembering everything that anybody has ever told me about their life. So at the end of the interview I might make reference to Lee Iacocca again with Marcus, and he's like oh, she was really paying attention. And if I see him five years from now I'm going to go oh my God, remember when we were talking about Lee Iacocca. And he's going to be like oh my God, she remembers. So my point is people remember when you remember.
Speaker 2:That's so true. People want to be seen, and part of what we're doing is when we interview is letting people know you're actually being seen for who you are, not just who I want to portray you as on my show Correct. Could we switch gears for a second and talk about podcast networks? So this is something I don't understand at all, and we constantly get questions from new podcasters, people on Bus Brow who either want to be part of a network or start their own.
Speaker 1:So your podcast is on Wondery and you pitched them, your I started at Wondery but now I'm on Acast. I think that the plight that a lot of podcasters have right now is that a lot of networks require an insane amount of downloads in order for them to add you to their platform. So if you are a new podcaster, I would recommend doing something like a Patreon, where you're getting a subscription fee from your listeners, because it's really really hard in a very oversaturated market to get brands to sponsor your show because you have to have an enormous amount of downloads. So I'm kind of in a different space, because I started it so long ago that I have always been with a network.
Speaker 1:But I feel for people that are just kind of starting out now but that would be my recommendation is to do a Patreon, especially if you already have a built an audience. I mean, you see people who are famous that are just starting out a Patreon and they're not even going to a network because they can get a subscription, which is great. I also have a Patreon in addition to my podcast, because those are people who are like it's almost like I want to be part of your channel, so I have bonus episodes where I'll do deep diving, like I had, behind the scenes of celebrity weddings, behind the scenes of celebrity stylists. It's like kicking it for 45 minutes with somebody and then people get bonus episodes and access and people have tears. So they want merchandise and there's a whole other thing. So I would recommend doing that.
Speaker 2:There are other pros and cons to actually being on a network.
Speaker 1:If you do a network, they're going to help you with the ads, which is a great thing. You have a team that's trying to get ads for you. But they're going to take a cut and, depending on how successful you are, they might take a huge cut if you're a new person to podcasting. So that's the nice thing about Patreon is you're going to cut through a lot of that headache.
Speaker 2:So you don't have to answer any of this if you don't want to. Can you give us an idea of what kind of a cut does a podcast network typically take? Are we talking like 50%, or are we talking?
Speaker 1:I think people who start off even maybe like 60%, they're going to take quite a bit, unless you're somebody who has a huge amount of download. So just be mindful. I hear people on Clubhouse all the time tell people oh, you're going to be monetizing that show right away, and it just couldn't be further from the truth. It's just really, really hard to do that and I just don't know. I overheard someone say well, I just started my show and I just had someone write me a check for $23,000. I'm like in monopoly money because that's not real.
Speaker 1:I don't know, what you're talking about. That's like misrepresentation. You're people. It's like false advertising. I don't know what you're doing. There's just no way. So just be realistic that it's going to take a long. It took me a long time to make money. I told you by first episode I had 2,000 listens in one day, so that just gives you an idea of how hard it is.
Speaker 2:So I totally love what you're saying about. A lot of times we hear this like oh, you're gonna be monetizing right away, and it's all a lot of fools. Gold in my mind, like there is a path to monetization, but it's a difficult path. Often the value brought from a podcast is kind of what you're doing by becoming the hub for all of the people in this industry, that everyone's kind of looking to you to find out what are the next big shows, but also everyone's making the shows wants to know how do I get in front of an audience? Because you're not just the person doing interviews, you're also kind of the trendsetter and the person with a pulse on the industry and I see that as being at least a lot of the value that people get out of running a podcast. Are there other non-monetary things that you can get out of running a successful show?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean there could be opportunities where you could become a speaker, you could be part of. There are tons of opportunities that you could get out. You could be involved in an organization. Maybe you become involved with a nonprofit because you're a big voice in a different space. You can connect with other people for a television project or audio projects. I mean, for me it was never all about money and that's probably why I've been successful. Is that I think that people who are all about money, it doesn't come across as authentic, it's not relaxed, it's like you can feel the white knuckles through your ear lobes. I think that if you look at it as an opportunity to do extra opportunities and to give voice to other people, amplify other people's voices through the medium, that you will always find success.
Speaker 2:I love it. One of the red flags I see a lot is when people's first question is what podcast categories get the most downloads, Because their real goal is not to be running a podcast how something they love.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:They want to run a podcast that gets a lot of downloads so that they can flip it to start making a lot of cash.
Speaker 1:Which is why there are 7,523 true crime podcasts.
Speaker 2:That's the answer that they always get it's true crime.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like murders martinis and I don't know and margaritas or whatever. It's like hey guys, let's talk about some murder cases. People feel it. They're like who's this Joker?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you're just entering into a world that's not play for you. I think one of the things you said earlier that's so key to your success has been having fun, and if it's not enjoyable, if it's not actually actively filling you up, that you feel like, oh, I'm ready to go, I'm even more excited to do the next interview after that last one. If you're not leaving interviews like that, it's because it's not what you should be working on and you're never going to be able to compete with somebody who's enjoying every minute of it. Is there any question, before we go, that I should have asked you that? There's something that you would like to tell new podcasters or people who are working on their shows that I may have missed?
Speaker 1:Just collaborate, Just find other people to work with, Do the research. Oh, you know what I hate it when some by the way, I have an audio engineer who helps me splice my episodes together. Other than that, I do everything myself. I'm researching, I'm writing, I'm producing, I'm booking all me Okay. So when some joker comes off the street and they've got five episodes and they're talking about their team and they're sending like a calendar link and all this, I'm like who are you Like? What are you talking about? So I mean, if you want someone to come on your show, you better write that email, you better contact them. Don't have your virtual assistant named Barbara, who lives in the middle of nowhere, because you'll look like a ding-dong. It has to come from you, you know. Or people that are like I'm going to have a launch party for my podcast. That's like having a launch party because you're going to open an Instagram account Like quote the debts. Take some time, do the work, Then it's fine.
Speaker 2:I love it. But well, if people want to learn more about you or they want to actually listen to the podcast, or just you know, join. What do you mean? Actually listen?
Speaker 1:What do they actually want to listen? What are you talking about? Of course they're going to want to listen to the podcast. They're going to be like she's my jam, she's my people. I want to be friends with her. Let's go to a dinner party. Listen, margaritas. They're going to listen to the podcast. After this extraordinary interview that you've just done, of course they are Listen. Go to your podcast app. You know it's 2021. So people know how to find it.
Speaker 1:Look up reality life with Kate Casey, and here's why I'm in good time. Okay, I'm going to tell you shows you haven't been watching. Dare, I say you're going to have a better relationship with your partner, your family members. Some of you lost your family members during the election. You don't know where they are. You have been fighting with them about politics. You need to bring them back and I'm going to do that for you because you're going to sit down. You're going to watch a documentary or a ridiculous reality show about polygamous. I don't know what it is, but you're going to look at each other and you're going to go 2020. Why did we fight about that dumb election? And then you're going to reach across the couch and you're going to playing your gin glasses and you're going to put one finger up in the air and you're going to go. I'm never going to let you go again. And then you're going to go to your iTunes and then you're going to write me a review and you're going to go.
Speaker 1:Dear Kate Casey, I don't know where you've been all my life, but I'll tell you this you're bringing people together and I'm going to high five you when I read it and I'm going to do a high kick, and then I'm going to punch the ground and then I'm going to jump up and I'm going to touch the sky, because that's what it's all meant to be. Now you can also find me on Twitter. I'm going to add KKC and I tweet about shows and during shows all week long. My Instagram is at KKCCA and you can get all my must watch lists all the time. My Facebook group is called reality life with KKC and it's super cool people. They're like really smart, fun, cool people.
Speaker 1:I'm on clubhouse all the time at KKC and Patreon bonus episodes and God, they're good. I mean they're good. I mean you're going to like put a foot up on the table and you're going to go. Man, this was some good and that's why you're going to go to Patreon. You're going to go to patreoncom, backslash KKC, and if not, that I'll see what CVS. I'll see you in the CVS aisle and we will high five each other across out. You might not know it's me because the face mask, but then you're going to see their eyes and you're going to go. That looks like Albin's sister and that must be KKC.
Speaker 2:Oh man, we will put links to all of this in the show notes, but go talk to the family member that you lost during the election. Pour yourself a glass of gin, sit down and watch some crazy TV that Kate recommends to you, and then go join the Facebook group, listen to the podcast and connect with other people who are watching the same crazy stuff that you're watching. Kate, thank you so much for the interview. Thank you for all of your insight into podcasting, what actually works, how people can grow their shows. We appreciate an incredible amount and I've appreciated just talking to you and laughing along the way. So thank you so much.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad and this has been fun.
